ultra rares again?

[Rapsey]

Re-added the original post after a mod made the unintelligible decision to permanently delete it... You know who you are. Thanks for making me waste over an hour doing a full DB backup restore just to recover this one post.

We're still discussing the possibilities internally. I'd appreciate it if no one else deletes part of this discussion, we rely on it for our decision making process.

[Rapsey]

Alright, time to go over all of this.

I had originally intended to post some kind of first draft proposal for the next sale, but it seems clear that the whole concept of the sales could use some further discussion. I can't promise that I'll be able to make everyone happy but if there are ways we can make these sales more agreeable for everyone then I think it's our duty to at least try.

Replies to points/concerns raised:

Spoiler: show

tbh i just want to see 1 guy buy out all the stock of 1 item

Might very well happen this time. In fact the longer we put off the next sale the more credits certain individuals accumulate so it's becoming harder and harder to prevent this.

Honestly not a fan of yet another sale.

Especially due to its self-serving nature.

Neither are we. Working out these sales is probably the one thing I hate doing most these days, it's always like navigating a minefield. But if we hadn't started doing the sales then PkHonor would've shut down around September 2019 so yeah... In a way I'm also glad that all it takes is a sale every 6-9 months to keep the server going indefinitely.

That being said, last time there was a good reason (the server was doing very poorly and we launched an advertising campaign IIRC), and I think it could hurt future unique sales if we did these without reason.

What makes you think that reason no longer applies? It's not as if one sale generated enough revenue to settle our books for the next 10 years lol. As it stands the sales solve our financial problems for about 6-9 months. It's not as if doing it once solves the problem permanently.

It'll eventually get to a point where players just save credits and wait for 'ultra rares'. Which will lead to a fairly big dip in donations because the price of credits will eventually crash..

Well yes, but that's actually the point. The main benefit of a sale is that it drives credit buying for the next 6 months as people restock, but then it does indeed drop off. It's kind of ironic that you view the credit prices crashing as a bad thing because that's exactly what will happen if we don't do another sale.

I would much much rather solve this problem with permanent additions to the store, that would be so much easier for us. Unfortunately you can't really get around basic human nature. People don't get excited about things that are for sale 24/7 all year through. Sales that provide these special opportunities are WAY more effective at incentivizing people to donate.

I hate playing mindgames like that and it's the reason we refused to ever do stuff like this until we no longer saw any other option. But I cannot deny that it works very well...

Hoarding credits is just a merch tactic, nothing wrong with it.

Indeed.

So your telling me market manipulation is a tactic?

Hmm... So what you're saying is that hoarding credits to make a fat profit down the road is evil. But what do we have on the other side of this argument (i.e. stop doing sales and leave our discontinued items alone)? People hoarding discontinued items to make a fat profit down the road.

When hoarding credits you're not blocking anyone else, more credits continue to trickle into the game. You're not preventing anyone else from doing the same thing. But when people are sitting on their discontinued rares, then they really are blocking everyone else and dictating the entire market for everyone. If you want to talk about merching vs market manipulation, here you have the difference.

Personally, the whole idea of having rares is stupid in my opinion.

I agree. Although I'm not sure if it's better not to have rares to be honest. If you have a game where people have 10T+ in their banks (cuz moneymaking has to be super fast and easy on an RSPS) but all the items are common so nothing costs more than 10B... Would you really be better off? Or would everyone just get bored and quit because they already have every item 10 times over?

My guess is a whole bunch of individual players are hoarding credits. The likelihood that they are working together is nil to none. Therefore they will still compete to offload credits when a rare sale comes about.

This appears to be the case. We haven't seen any evidence of collusion or manipulation. It seems to be every man for himself.

Pkhonor's flaw is neglect and irresponsibility of discontinued items.

Could you explain that one a little further? I'm really curious what you meant by it. Maybe we can become less negligent and more responsible in the future.

If you give players the idea that hoarding credits will gain you x amount of bills, then any player with a nice bank will buy credits for more than their average cost, leading to more players getting more gp for their $ and will donate throughout those +6 months. You only put 500k credits worth of items for sale, but players have bought (collectively) 1 million credits. The donator got more bang for their buck their buck throughout the +6 months awaiting the sale, and players who hoarded the credits get to make their money on their investments, but not everyone gets the chance to buy items if more players try to do what you did.

Actually we target our sales at the amount of credits currently in the eco, not half of it. I can see the idea behind that strategy but we don't want to turn this into rush sales that are sold out in 5min and the other half who spent months saving up for this gets a major bummer. It's also beneficial to get as many credits out of the eco as possible, so that it will take as long as possible for people to restock and we don't have to do these sales more frequently.

You are hitting on the very thing that makes these sales work. It's actually very psychological in nature. We could simply make everything in the donator store worth 5M/credit. Donators would profit just as much from their donations but it wouldn't work nearly as well as an incentive. The credit merching aspect makes it feel like an opportunity rather than just the normal prices. It also makes it so that every player can benefit from these sales, not just the donators, which was the main reason why we made credits tradeable in the first place.

There is one serious question I would like to ask all of you, because this really does puzzle me.

When rich veterans make hundreds of billions (or even trillions) merching any other item in the game - which only benefits their own bank and nothing else - we say well done.
But when a rich veteran does exactly the same with credits - which helps the server a ton in addition to benefiting their bank - we treat them like selfish scum.

Everyone on here is trying to boost their own wealth. Why is it evil that they are merching in a way that indirectly keeps the server alive for us all, but everyone else who is literally only merching to fill their own pockets is claiming the moral high ground? Can someone please explain that to me?


I must admit I still don't fully understand where the aversion to these sales comes from. Is it the fact that new rares are introduced at all? Or that someone is consciously deciding to do it? Or that there's real money involved? Or that these items existed in the game prior to being put on sale?

I think if we added an ultra rare with an in-game drop chance of 1/1M, no one would be upset over new ones entering the game. It would have a massive impact on the value every time it happens but I reckon it would just be seen as normal.

So what if we gave away an ultra rare once a year as the reward for a very special titan event or something? Then it would be a conscious decision on our part but without any financial motives. Would it still be seen as a despicable thing then?

What if we did these sales with brand new items, not items that were already established as ultra-rares? Would that make a difference?


As for the argument of devaluing them, we are actually trying to keep them close to their old value. I think most of the upheaval is because we disagree over what their old value actually was.

Take legends for instance. People are very fond of saying that it was worth 3-5T. In reality no legends was ever sold for even close to 5T. Only 3 legends were ever sold for more than 3T over the course of several years. All the others were sold for 1.4-1.6T, even throughout 2019 just months before we did the sale.

Now I understand that as players we like to think that our items are worth the maximum we could possibly sell them for. It makes sense to think that way. But the reality is that the times a buyer was convinced to pay this much for a legends were the exceptions. not the rule.

So that's how we look at it. In our view legends was worth 1.4-1.6T (since that's what 80% of them went for) and the occasional outliers we see as someone seriously overpaying. As soon as the sale ended legends were being traded for 1T+ and have gradually continued to go up to the 1.1-1.5T they are currently being traded at.

This is actually exactly what we had hoped would happen to the prices. Not only that, but in the 6 months since the sale ended there have been 2.5x more trades than in the 2 years prior to the sale (which we also consider to be a good thing). True, now that they are more actively traded by several players it's unlikely that you'll be able to convince a buyer to pay double. But honestly... should we really have said "OK all legends are worth 4T now" just because a grand total of 2 legends have ever been sold for 4T while the other 48 were sold for way less? That's not exactly a fair price assessment either is it?

So how about Grain? Shall we look at the sales for that one?

Spoiler: show

Code: Select all

+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| date       | type  | amount |           price_each |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| 2018-05-03 | TRADE |      1 |      285,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-05 | TRADE |      1 |      818,500,000,000 |
| 2018-05-06 | TRADE |      1 |      400,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-07 | G.E.  |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | TRADE |      1 |      675,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      699,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | TRADE |      1 |      505,349,550,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | TRADE |      1 |      550,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-12 | TRADE |      1 |      660,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-13 | G.E.  |      1 |      550,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-14 | TRADE |      1 |      666,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-18 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-19 | TRADE |      1 |      625,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-30 | TRADE |      1 |      750,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-30 | TRADE |      1 |      779,600,000,000 |
| 2018-06-29 | TRADE |      1 |      902,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-01 | TRADE |      1 |      800,000,000,000 |
| 2018-12-19 | TRADE |      1 |      875,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-06 | TRADE |      1 |    1,100,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-06 | TRADE |      1 |    1,100,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-04 | TRADE |      1 |      391,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-13 | TRADE |      1 |      576,150,000,000 |
| 2019-03-22 | TRADE |      1 |      640,000,000,000 |
| 2019-04-30 | TRADE |      1 |      599,500,000,000 |
| 2019-04-30 | TRADE |      1 |      599,500,000,000 |
| 2019-06-16 | TRADE |      1 |      914,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-25 | TRADE |      1 |      800,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      950,000,000,000 |
| 2019-09-15 | TRADE |      1 |    1,050,000,000,000 |
| 2019-09-15 | TRADE |      1 |      100,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-08 | TRADE |      1 |    1,148,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-22 | TRADE |      1 |      875,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-24 | TRADE |      1 |      715,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | TRADE |      2 |      550,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | TRADE |      1 |    1,100,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | G.E.  |      1 |      835,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-08 | TRADE |      1 |    1,100,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-13 | TRADE |      1 |    1,052,500,000,000 |
| 2020-01-18 | TRADE |      1 |    1,100,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-20 | TRADE |      1 |    1,050,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-21 | TRADE |      1 |      875,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-10 | TRADE |      1 |    1,000,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-13 | TRADE |      1 |    1,197,500,000,000 |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+

Yeah, we totally devalued that one didn't we.

So how about aprons?

Spoiler: show

Code: Select all

+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| date       | type  | amount |           price_each |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| 2018-02-19 | TRADE |      1 |      275,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-02 | TRADE |      1 |      176,250,000,000 |
| 2018-05-05 | TRADE |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-06 | TRADE |      1 |      299,250,000,000 |
| 2018-05-06 | TRADE |      1 |      285,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-07 | TRADE |      1 |      325,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | TRADE |      1 |      359,775,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-09 | G.E.  |      1 |      324,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-09 | G.E.  |      1 |      325,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-13 | G.E.  |      1 |      130,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-13 | TRADE |      2 |      177,600,000,000 |
| 2018-05-14 | G.E.  |      1 |      150,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-19 | G.E.  |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-20 | TRADE |      1 |      180,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-20 | G.E.  |      1 |      215,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-23 | G.E.  |      1 |      210,000,000,001 |
| 2018-05-27 | TRADE |      1 |      185,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-06 | TRADE |      1 |      305,250,000,000 |
| 2018-06-06 | TRADE |      1 |      176,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-07 | G.E.  |      1 |      180,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      210,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      175,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-12 | TRADE |      2 |      185,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-15 | G.E.  |      1 |      198,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-17 | TRADE |      1 |      184,900,000,000 |
| 2018-06-18 | G.E.  |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-26 | TRADE |      1 |      205,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-11 | TRADE |      1 |      175,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-12 | TRADE |      1 |      180,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-16 | TRADE |      1 |      190,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-22 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2018-08-06 | TRADE |      1 |      215,000,000,000 |
| 2018-08-09 | TRADE |      1 |      278,600,000,000 |
| 2018-08-26 | TRADE |      1 |      195,000,000,000 |
| 2018-09-05 | TRADE |      1 |      220,000,000,000 |
| 2018-10-16 | TRADE |      1 |      231,000,000,000 |
| 2018-10-31 | G.E.  |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2018-11-05 | TRADE |      1 |      265,000,000,000 |
| 2018-11-19 | G.E.  |      1 |      230,000,000,000 |
| 2018-12-13 | TRADE |      1 |      275,750,000,000 |
| 2018-12-19 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2018-12-22 | TRADE |      1 |      270,000,000,000 |
| 2018-12-24 | TRADE |      1 |      235,999,900,000 |
| 2018-12-30 | G.E.  |      1 |      275,000,000,000 |
| 2018-12-30 | TRADE |      1 |      282,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-15 | TRADE |      1 |      220,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-25 | TRADE |      1 |      245,000,000,000 |
| 2019-02-21 | TRADE |      1 |      280,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-03 | TRADE |      1 |      265,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-04 | TRADE |      1 |      235,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-06 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-11 | TRADE |      2 |      260,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-22 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2019-05-07 | TRADE |      1 |      230,000,000,000 |
| 2019-05-07 | TRADE |      1 |      235,000,000,000 |
| 2019-05-24 | TRADE |      1 |      340,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-23 | G.E.  |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-26 | G.E.  |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2019-07-01 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2019-07-02 | TRADE |      1 |      339,000,000,000 |
| 2019-07-28 | G.E.  |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-04 | TRADE |      1 |      233,750,000,000 |
| 2019-08-07 | TRADE |      1 |      127,014,125,000 |
| 2019-08-07 | TRADE |      1 |      400,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-09 | G.E.  |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-10 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-10 | TRADE |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-16 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2019-08-17 | G.E.  |      1 |      180,000,000,000 |
| 2019-09-12 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2019-09-15 | TRADE |      1 |      235,000,000,000 |
| 2019-10-14 | G.E.  |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-10-23 | TRADE |      1 |      400,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-05 | TRADE |      1 |      230,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-05 | TRADE |      1 |      230,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-25 | TRADE |      1 |      205,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-26 | TRADE |      1 |      278,100,000,000 |
| 2019-12-31 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-02 | TRADE |      1 |      157,970,500,000 |
| 2020-01-02 | G.E.  |      1 |      180,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-02 | TRADE |      1 |      213,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-02 | TRADE |      1 |      213,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | TRADE |      1 |      162,500,000,000 |
| 2020-01-05 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-07 | TRADE |      1 |      296,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-10 | TRADE |      1 |      228,050,000,000 |
| 2020-01-20 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-21 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2020-02-07 | TRADE |      1 |      202,000,000,000 |
| 2020-04-04 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-04-13 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-04-28 | TRADE |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-04-29 | TRADE |      1 |      191,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-05 | TRADE |      1 |      190,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-11 | TRADE |      1 |      230,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | TRADE |      1 |      213,000,000,000 |
| 2020-06-23 | TRADE |      1 |      171,000,000,000 |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+

Doesn't look like they've suffered either.

Maybe woodens then?

Spoiler: show

Code: Select all

+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| date       | type  | amount |           price_each |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+
| 2018-02-19 | TRADE |      1 |      275,000,000,000 |
| 2018-03-16 | TRADE |      1 |      510,000,000,000 |
| 2018-03-16 | TRADE |      1 |      450,000,000,000 |
| 2018-03-21 | G.E.  |      1 |      450,000,000,000 |
| 2018-04-23 | G.E.  |      1 |      320,000,000,000 |
| 2018-04-23 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-04-23 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-02 | G.E.  |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-02 | TRADE |      1 |      351,250,000,000 |
| 2018-05-07 | TRADE |      1 |      415,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-08 | G.E.  |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-15 | TRADE |      1 |      372,750,000,000 |
| 2018-05-31 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-05-31 | G.E.  |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-02 | G.E.  |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-07 | G.E.  |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2018-06-29 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-07 | G.E.  |      1 |      130,000,000,000 |
| 2018-07-11 | G.E.  |      1 |      340,000,000,000 |
| 2018-09-28 | G.E.  |      2 |      550,000,000,000 |
| 2018-11-02 | TRADE |      1 |      430,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-06 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-06 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-10 | TRADE |      1 |      552,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-15 | TRADE |      1 |      520,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-17 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-01-25 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-02-27 | TRADE |      1 |      325,000,000,000 |
| 2019-02-28 | G.E.  |      1 |      480,000,000,000 |
| 2019-03-01 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2019-04-14 | TRADE |      1 |      450,000,000,000 |
| 2019-04-14 | TRADE |      1 |      193,000,000,000 |
| 2019-05-24 | TRADE |      1 |      515,000,000,000 |
| 2019-05-28 | TRADE |      1 |      416,500,000,000 |
| 2019-06-07 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-07 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-06-29 | TRADE |      1 |      575,000,000,000 |
| 2019-07-01 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2019-07-16 | TRADE |      1 |      543,100,000,000 |
| 2019-07-21 | TRADE |      1 |      525,850,000,000 |
| 2019-08-07 | TRADE |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-09-15 | TRADE |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2019-10-23 | TRADE |      1 |      225,000,000,000 |
| 2019-10-24 | TRADE |      1 |      100,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-08 | TRADE |      1 |      398,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-20 | TRADE |      1 |      517,000,000,000 |
| 2019-12-26 | TRADE |      1 |      453,100,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-04 | TRADE |      1 |      500,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-07 | TRADE |      1 |      350,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-08 | TRADE |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2020-01-17 | TRADE |      1 |      250,600,000,000 |
| 2020-01-23 | TRADE |      1 |    1,062,500,000,000 |
| 2020-02-02 | TRADE |      1 |      263,800,000,000 |
| 2020-02-04 | TRADE |      1 |      305,000,000,000 |
| 2020-02-04 | TRADE |      1 |      250,000,000,000 |
| 2020-02-07 | TRADE |      2 |      292,500,000,000 |
| 2020-02-23 | TRADE |      1 |      319,750,000,000 |
| 2020-02-25 | TRADE |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2020-02-25 | TRADE |      1 |      270,000,000,000 |
| 2020-02-29 | TRADE |      2 |      210,000,000,000 |
| 2020-03-06 | G.E.  |      1 |      200,000,000,000 |
| 2020-03-19 | TRADE |      1 |      297,512,500,000 |
| 2020-03-28 | TRADE |      1 |      295,000,000,000 |
| 2020-04-22 | TRADE |      1 |      294,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-10 | TRADE |      1 |      332,363,000,000 |
| 2020-05-11 | G.E.  |      1 |      320,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-13 | TRADE |      1 |      270,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-14 | TRADE |      1 |      440,750,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      600,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      375,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      400,000,000,000 |
| 2020-05-25 | G.E.  |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2020-06-01 | TRADE |      1 |      365,000,000,000 |
| 2020-06-02 | TRADE |      1 |      300,000,000,000 |
| 2020-06-02 | G.E.  |      1 |      305,000,000,000 |
| 2020-06-14 | TRADE |      1 |      334,875,000,000 |
| 2020-06-20 | TRADE |      1 |      354,750,000,000 |
| 2020-06-24 | TRADE |      1 |      280,000,000,000 |
+------------+-------+--------+----------------------+

Okay, I'll admit, it does seem like woodens are now trading for a little less on average than they used to. Personally I doubt that is is purely because we added 10 into the eco. There's well over 300 woodens in the game and at least 100 of those are on active accounts. There's even one guy who has 48 of them (last online a little under a year ago). If he ever decides to sell his stack it would have far more of an impact than the 10 we sold.

Overall we have always done our very best to ensure the prices did not suffer too much. You're welcome to make your own verdict but I am quite pleased with the results.


Now, this post is already the biggest I have ever made but I would like to end with some thoughts for the next sale. Personally I think the existing rares (legends, grain, apron, wooden etc) need to be left alone for a while. Ideally the next sale should be all new items (or at least items that have never gone on sale).

I would definitely consider flippers, seeing as there is only one person who has ever had a pair. That makes it very feasible for us to buy them out and it is a very appealing cosmetic. I for one would like to see more of them in the game. The person who owns them hasn't logged on in almost a year but I'm sure an accommodation could be reached that would free up this item for reintroduction.

As for initiate... That seems like a can of works. There's quite a few people who have it and often in different pieces, so negotiating a solution with all of them would be a nightmare. On the other hand, i have always felt that initiate really shouldn't be a discontinued item. Unlike funky cosmetics like flippers or a giant bag or grain, initiate feels like something that should be part of the game. But I gotta be honest, I am really not looking forward to having that conversation with all the people who currently own it.

Brand new items are always an option for rares, although we are hesitant to do that because we don't want to take away too much from other content. We don't want to just take a bunch of items away from a future update by turning them into ultra rares.


Alright, I think that's enough for mow. I doubt anyone has continued reading up to this point anyway.

I have got to stop writing these massive posts...

[Nazuths]

Can we get a tldr on this one please @Rapsey

[Will be ok2]

@Rapsey good points, I still am however in support that init sets gets released as I believe it would be the first and most popular thing that sells. Something to actually drive the sale IMO.

[Rapsey]

Can we get a tldr on this one please @Rapsey

This is the tl;dr, that's why the whole Q&A section is between spoiler tags. xD

Yeah I know, I've totally overdone it again...

tl;dr: keep calm and love your rapsey

[Iron adam]

sales of rares is fine, just mix it up a little more. Legends, wooden, grain, and aprons arent the only things that can be put on sale. What about flippers, white staff, and some other obscure items. There are also plenty of obscure cosmetic items in the client that have never been in the economy. Something like the anger weapons or metal partyhats. Do some 1 off sales of those items too.

[Donut man1]

how bout limited time pets that we can buy with credits?

[Rapsey]

sales of rares is fine, just mix it up a little more. Legends, wooden, grain, and aprons arent the only things that can be put on sale. What about flippers, white staff, and some other obscure items. There are also plenty of obscure cosmetic items in the client that have never been in the economy. Something like the anger weapons or metal partyhats. Do some 1 off sales of those items too.

We always thought that any new item should have at least 10 introduced in the initial sale, out of concern that any less would cause too great an impact if more are added later. I reckon if there was only one, we could never add a second without pissing off the one player who has had a one-off up until then. Do you think maybe we're being too paranoid about that?

how bout limited time pets that we can buy with credits?

I'm not sure how great the appeal would be. It might work if they were exclusive. As for the regular pets in our store, no one ever bought those.

[Donut man1]

how bout limited time pets that we can buy with credits?

I'm not sure how great the appeal would be. It might work if they were exclusive. As for the regular pets in our store, no one ever bought those.
[/quote]

yeah so im thinking of during Halloween a exclusive Halloween pet that we could buy with credits but idk if people would be mad cause it won be an event for the pet?

[Lykos]

Pkhonor's flaw is neglect and irresponsibility of discontinued items.

Could you explain that one a little further? I'm really curious what you meant by it. Maybe we can become less negligent and more responsible in the future.

The idea of discontinued items, whether they are tradeable or from events, has always been controversial. And although I agree including them in a private server is healthy, I personally feel as if there's more you guys can do to mitigate this awkward place we always end up hitting. I don't have all the answers, but I'd hope this becomes a priority and the community can work together to find more solutions to this entire problem.

When talking about neglect and irresponsibility...
(Warning contains a mess of thoughts/questions/and whining)

Spoiler: show

For starters, the amount of discontinued items existing in PkHonor is ridiculous. I can understand items such as grain, wooden, and aprons; since those are items that you'd never expect to be considered discontinued or 'glorified' in any other RSPS environment. But things such as Legends Cape, Gnome Scarf, Initiate; it's honestly so tragic. These are such beloved items that provide so much to nostalgia and fashionscaping, they shouldn't be locked behind a massive wealth wall or veteranship.

When the server was being handed over from Hamade to Mike, I'm sure you had to face this whole issue with discontinued items head-on and it probably wasn't easy. But I believe it was at that moment you had to make a decision, and no matter what you did it probably would've came back to annoy you in the future. Why didn't you decide to reduce the amount of existing discontinued items at that time? Perhaps you already did remove and reintroduce some discontinued items and the ones existing presently are a result from the past decision?

It is so unclear to me what the ultimate goal is for PkHonor's discontinued items. Do you want to slowly reintroduce these items back into the game fully YES or NO? I see this being thrown around so much and I don't know what the definitive answer is. Is the donator store the only way you're ever going to reintroduce these items back into the game? If the rich keep using their amassed wealth to immediately obtain the discontinued items being reintroduced into the game... Is it really being "reintroduced" or just hoarded onto an account, further slowing down the process? Is that just the nature of things?

And to make one point clear, untradeable event items ARE discontinued items. No matter how much you try to justify it, the truth is, they are being treated the same as the tradeable ones, AND IT SHOULDN'T. There have been many suggestions to introduce some sort of 'past holiday store' or to bring back old events so untradeable discontinued items can further repopulate the server. But these suggestions immediately get shut down because veterans get a higher priority and voice to their items.

I'm completely aware that I'm talking out of my ass because this is entirely opinionated. But at least it's coming from my heart too.

sales of rares is fine, just mix it up a little more. Legends, wooden, grain, and aprons arent the only things that can be put on sale. What about flippers, white staff, and some other obscure items. There are also plenty of obscure cosmetic items in the client that have never been in the economy. Something like the anger weapons or metal partyhats. Do some 1 off sales of those items too.

+1 for white staff.