PkHonor

The reason 1:1 is unfair is because by running your finger down your number keys you can do an entire skill using only "1:1" keybindings. This avoids effort, misclicks, and dramatically increases xp/hour over playing normally by reducing mouse movement time to 0. Acting like 1:1 macros are some thing that don't provide an unfair advantage is only a product of the fact that OSRS said it was ok and AHKers took that as their golden ticket to claiming it's fair. It's not, most games just can't be bothered tracking and catching 1:1 macroers.

In terms of a staff member saying it's allowed, which is what I was was saying was not true, I guess someone actually possibly did say that, although after searching through some things I'm not sure that's a consensus.

Billy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:14 pm

Rapsey wrote:We deliberately chose not to allow 1:1 macroing, not out of principle but simply because our bot detection can't adequately distinguish between someone using 1:1 macro's and someone using full-blown bot scripts. The rule is the way it is because of a technical limitation, one for which we have no immediate solution.

I get that y'all are eager to try to get this changed but please. We can't do everything all the time. There's already a discussion topic about this rule and we will get to it when we have the time. It's not exactly very high up on our list of priorities right now.

I'm affraid we'll need to deny the suggestion.

This is the last official position I can find on it. There have been other discussions I believe, but it's more or less this.

I don't know how true it is today, and of course, from a player's perspective it's sort of a "why is that my problem?" situation.

I don't think 1:1 AHK is unfair in any capacity either, but concerns over bot detection could be enough to justify not allowing it.
When talking about 'fairness', we're not here to tell you exactly how to play the game. You don't *have* to enjoy the skilling grind, it is okay to think that the grind sucks and you'd rather put in the work but not the attention.

Some people misclicking more than others is not a part of the game design - that's entirely a player's own problem. You can also avoid misclicks and rapidly speed up the process in an equivalent manner by playing on a tablet; think about it, you could add any anti-capacitive like acrylic to the screen and place it on top of where you don't want touch to register, leaving room only for the clicks you do want to register. Do we disallow use of tablets on PkHonor? Of course not, the idea that 1:1 AHK specifically is unfair doesn't make much sense. On the contrary, it's basically the foundational principle. 1 action should always map to one input. The only exception is when the game devs say otherwise (i.e. "make X" option while skilling).

What if you modified the very circuitry of your keyboard to map to a new set of inputs that helped you fletch faster? Of course no one is modifying hardware to get an edge in PkHonor (I think), but we should think deeply about what actually matters here. 1:1 really is the principle we should follow here to avoid trying to make this grey area any bigger. I don't think it goes any deeper than that, because after that it's kind of subjective. Should a player's full focus an attention be on the game while they put in and equal number of actions? Why should it be? Some people enjoy the skilling grind, others do not. The principle should be agnostic to both

However, to loop back: I don't think there's much of an argument for it being 'unfair' on principle. But I do think that if there are pragmatic concerns over bot detection that there is ample justification for not allowing it.

If it's any consolation, countless players regularly have used 1:1 key mappings. I won't say 'they got away with it' because that implies they did something wrong, but they did do it and they're certainly not all banned. I'm sure some players still do.

Can someone please elaborate on this witch craft for me?

Is this a:

Press N- cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinates on the monitor. (Regardless of relation to character location)

Or

Press N- Cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinate on Pkhonor. (Regardless of position of character)

Xsquire1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:51 pm Can someone please elaborate on this witch craft for me?

Is this a:

Press N- cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinates on the monitor. (Regardless of relation to character location)

Or

Press N- Cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinate on Pkhonor. (Regardless of position of character)

Pretty sure pkhonor is irrelevant in this scenario, similar to macro recording by the looks of it

Xsquire1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:51 pm Can someone please elaborate on this witch craft for me?

Is this a:

Press N- cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinates on the monitor. (Regardless of relation to character location)

Or

Press N- Cursor clicks on (x,y) coordinate on Pkhonor. (Regardless of position of character)

So you have a few things mixed together and confused. First, most peopleing using any type of 1:1 remapping of keys etc, does not affect client side. Usually it is on the user end. For example the program I use will move my mouse even if pkhonor is closed.


The second issue is if you pressed N and your moused moved AND clicked that is considered a macro. You would need to set up your key binds to have moving you mouse be an action, and clicking be another action.

I feel if both scenarios listed above are try then you should be able to do it, granted higher ups agree and there are no other concerns about bot detection or cheating etc.

Marklauten wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:47 pm The second issue is if you pressed N and your moused moved AND clicked that is considered a macro. You would need to set up your key binds to have moving you mouse be an action, and clicking be another action.

Ok you kinda cleared it up. So let’s keep the scenario the same....

So would pressing N move your cursor to a specific spot on the screen (like an x,y coordinate), or would it only be able to move it in a direction you set like arrow keys?

Xsquire1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:49 pm

Marklauten wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:47 pm The second issue is if you pressed N and your moused moved AND clicked that is considered a macro. You would need to set up your key binds to have moving you mouse be an action, and clicking be another action.

Ok you kinda cleared it up. So let’s keep the scenario the same....

So would pressing N move your cursor to a specific spot on the screen (like an x,y coordinate), or would it only be able to move it in a direction you set like arrow keys?

It depends on what you are trying to do. I personally have the skills to make my computer do anything I want. Either is do-able. What is PkHonor going to allow? I think the only debate in these scenarios is mouse movement itself.

Is moving your mouse from 1,1 to 2,2 considered 1 action? Is that different from using your keyboard to do it? There are many ways to move your mouse in that fashion. First is having an action to move it to 1,1. Another is programing 4 keys to "drive" your mouse around. I consider both those options one in the same.

Marklauten wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:06 pm

Xsquire1 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:49 pm

Marklauten wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:47 pm The second issue is if you pressed N and your moused moved AND clicked that is considered a macro. You would need to set up your key binds to have moving you mouse be an action, and clicking be another action.

Ok you kinda cleared it up. So let’s keep the scenario the same....

So would pressing N move your cursor to a specific spot on the screen (like an x,y coordinate), or would it only be able to move it in a direction you set like arrow keys?

It depends on what you are trying to do. I personally have the skills to make my computer do anything I want. Either is do-able. What is PkHonor going to allow? I think the only debate in these scenarios is mouse movement itself.

Is moving your mouse from 1,1 to 2,2 considered 1 action? Is that different from using your keyboard to do it? There are many ways to move your mouse in that fashion. First is having an action to move it to 1,1. Another is programing 4 keys to "drive" your mouse around. I consider both those options one in the same.

Another question would be. What does the "logs" or people reading the logs flag as a bot? Are mouse movements recorded? If I am using arrow keys to drive my mouse around, that might look bot like. I am unsure how the admins monitor potential bots. This is the main problem I am facing, is attempting to differentiate true human mouse behavior with keyboard mouse actions (human behavior in a different setup)

Here's a scenario: Is this against the rules? Where is the line drawn?

Patel wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:09 am

Billy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:14 pm

Rapsey wrote:We deliberately chose not to allow 1:1 macroing, not out of principle but simply because our bot detection can't adequately distinguish between someone using 1:1 macro's and someone using full-blown bot scripts. The rule is the way it is because of a technical limitation, one for which we have no immediate solution.

I get that y'all are eager to try to get this changed but please. We can't do everything all the time. There's already a discussion topic about this rule and we will get to it when we have the time. It's not exactly very high up on our list of priorities right now.

I'm affraid we'll need to deny the suggestion.

This is the last official position I can find on it. There have been other discussions I believe, but it's more or less this.

I don't know how true it is today, and of course, from a player's perspective it's sort of a "why is that my problem?" situation.

I don't think 1:1 AHK is unfair in any capacity either, but concerns over bot detection could be enough to justify not allowing it.
When talking about 'fairness', we're not here to tell you exactly how to play the game. You don't *have* to enjoy the skilling grind, it is okay to think that the grind sucks and you'd rather put in the work but not the attention.

Some people misclicking more than others is not a part of the game design - that's entirely a player's own problem. You can also avoid misclicks and rapidly speed up the process in an equivalent manner by playing on a tablet; think about it, you could add any anti-capacitive like acrylic to the screen and place it on top of where you don't want touch to register, leaving room only for the clicks you do want to register. Do we disallow use of tablets on PkHonor? Of course not, the idea that 1:1 AHK specifically is unfair doesn't make much sense. On the contrary, it's basically the foundational principle. 1 action should always map to one input. The only exception is when the game devs say otherwise (i.e. "make X" option while skilling).

That's different because you have to actually go through the motion of clicking on the screen where it wants, in a unique area determined by the skill. With 1:1, I could turn nearly every skill in the game into the same set of keybindings, pressing "1234567890" and configuring AHK to ignore/call an input delay on the ones which create proper timing for the skill. It's pretty much as close as you can get to botting.

If that's ok, then I don't see why setting up an AHK script that does a full skill provided the input key is being held down the entire time. What's the difference between holding "uuuuuuuuuuuu" on a script that autoprogresses its state and running my fingers down "1234567890". From there the question is, do I even need to be holding it down or just at my computer when it runs?

Beginning discussions on things like those are things that we've discussed in private chats as not wanting to debate, so the official stance (from the last information I could find on this topic, someone can feel free to speak up if opinions have changed) is that 1:1 isn't allowed.

Edit:
Also, technically speaking, remappings in AHK which only remap given some conditional (say a certain pixel is in a certain color range) are technically 1:1. It's literally botting if you implement it well enough.