PkHonor

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:46 am**

Sparky96 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:37 am 2 points.

1. 3 people, all max gear, 2 with scythe chaos cape. 1 with chaos torva steads etc, took 1min 12 seconds to kill ranger dag king...isn't that a bit cazy or am i personally off my nut?

2. Considering how inflated the economy already is and a small portion of people holding large amount of wealth. Doesn't it make sense to leave it as it was? New players will ultimately never be able to keep up with the people merching items pricing to get very far in game. Even in max gear a solo dag kill was 2 min and a corp kill 8 minutes with an honors assistance and 8 brews. I speculate a duo of 2 newer players even in arma with chaotic cross bow would likely not be able to even kill corp alone in under 15-20 min and 2 trips.

I completely agree, this will mess up the economy so much.
Also, I think that faster paced kills are a characteristic of the server and people like it. I might be wrong here, but that's how i feel. You can make certain weapons more optimal than others for different bosses without messing with the amount of time required to kill so much. People will still want the optimal gear for this or that activity.
Messing up the amount of time to kill a certain mob without changing the drop rates will be terrible for the economy. I don't see a reason for any of this to happen though.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:04 am**

Will be ok2 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:22 am With all due respect I think you absolutely ruined the comp capes especially chaos comp, regular max cape is now BIS compared to ench comps. Like you mentioned this is a private server not osrs we want some level of ez-scape, please revert this change and make ench comps great again.

Which boss exactly are you referring to? (being better with max cape than comp)

Spoiler: show

Andr694769 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:46 am Also, I think that faster paced kills are a characteristic of the server and people like it. I might be wrong here, but that's how i feel. You can make certain weapons more optimal than others for different bosses without messing with the amount of time required to kill so much. People will still want the optimal gear for this or that activity.
Messing up the amount of time to kill a certain mob without changing the drop rates will be terrible for the economy. I don't see a reason for any of this to happen though.

And we fully agree.

We are actively trying to measure what changes can effectively be made to bring the current kill speed back up with the original ones, while maintaining the OSRS stat-balance (some combat styles / stats being more effective than others). We will try to make it possible to get similar drops per hour, but it could be that some bosses require a specific style now to effectively be killed (like in OSRS).

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:16 am**

Thoby wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:04 am
Will be ok2 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:22 am With all due respect I think you absolutely ruined the comp capes especially chaos comp, regular max cape is now BIS compared to ench comps. Like you mentioned this is a private server not osrs we want some level of ez-scape, please revert this change and make ench comps great again.
Which boss exactly are you referring to? (being better with max cape than comp)

Spoiler: show
Some current DPS comparisons:

Torva (Max Cape):
General Graardor: 5.21 DPS
Commander Zilyana: 4.07 DPS
K'ril Tsutsaroth: 5.17 DPS
Nex: 10.71 DPS
Dagannoth Rex: 2.86 DPS
Dagannoth Supreme: 4.75 DPS
Dagannoth Prime: 2.85 DPS

Torva (Chaos Comp Cape):
General Graardor: 6.46 DPS
Commander Zilyana: 5.02 DPS
K'ril Tsutsaroth: 6.41 DPS
Nex: 13.29 DPS
Dagannoth Rex: 2.91 DPS
Dagannoth Supreme: 5.85 DPS
Dagannoth Prime: 2.91 DPS

Additional Gear:

(Including overload + turmoil)

Andr694769 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:46 am Also, I think that faster paced kills are a characteristic of the server and people like it. I might be wrong here, but that's how i feel. You can make certain weapons more optimal than others for different bosses without messing with the amount of time required to kill so much. People will still want the optimal gear for this or that activity.
Messing up the amount of time to kill a certain mob without changing the drop rates will be terrible for the economy. I don't see a reason for any of this to happen though.
And we fully agree.

We are actively trying to measure what changes can effectively be made to bring the current kill speed back up with the original ones, while maintaining the OSRS stat-balance (some combat styles / stats being more effective than others). We will try to make it possible to get similar drops per hour, but it could be that some bosses require a specific style now to effectively be killed (like in OSRS).

Hmm, so although your data may paint a specific light on the projected DPS that isn’t always the case and there are variables in pvm which aren’t taken into consideration always, similar to how in theory bandos is suppose to be meta for drops however arma is actually based on its previous (idk if it has been updated or not) defence bonus.

From personal experience (upwards of 2K+ nex kills across accounts) I get outhit by noobs in max capes nearly 50% of the time. Like genuinely if I see someone in a max cape show up in the exact same gear as myself I’m forced to equip an avernic defender based on how often I get crashed (in complete max). Now this is update has made it even worse?

All of these points and opinions aside, why on earth fix something if it isn’t broken? Like honestly? Nobody complained (that I can remember) about wanting a ench comp cape nerf so why do it? I’ve played this game going on 5-6 years now and cannot remember someone with more than 100 hours time played complaining about “wow nerf comp capes they’re broken”. It takes most people upwards of 1K hours played to obtain their first ench comp cape, a vet who knows all the metas of training etc could still take upwards of 500 hours, it also costs hundreds of bills (pray, smithing, fletching and con exp).

So with all of this being said.. please for the love of a RSPS vibe revert the update and let us enjoy the fruits of our labour.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:24 am**

Will be ok2 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:22 am
Mike wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:53 pm After some consideration, we have come to the conclusion that simply taking NPC OSRS stats 1:1 on PkHonor is not the way our community wants us to go. This is a private server after all and people have always enjoyed faster boss kills. Nobody wants to just keep fighting a boss for 10 minutes straight. As such, we will perform some simulations in the days to come and nerf the defenses of the NPC's in an appropriate manner. Not too much, otherwise chaos blowpipe will just be BIS for every situation again, but not too little so bosses don't take forever to kill. We'll try to find the right balance.
With all due respect I think you absolutely ruined the comp capes especially chaos comp, regular max cape is now BIS compared to ench comps. Like you mentioned this is a private server not osrs we want some level of ez-scape, please revert this change and make ench comps great again.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The only comp cape we nerfed was the Completionist cape (chaos) with -5 attack and strength bonuses compared to before, all the other comp capes have been left untouched. Being able to hit 1 tick faster with any weapon in the game still makes it an incredibly strong cape to have. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:55 am**

So I greatly appreciate this server and those who put their time into it.

With that said I have to re-post where I originally had this in "spam/other" so its actually on the topic. In a year or so this is the first thing on this server that has actually had me a little pressed.

Thank You for cox.

However, respectfully, the entire rebalance is utter dogshit. Scrap the entire thing.

Part of the fun in RSPS is having "slightly broken" end-game items to earn. There is already a solid grind on this server to access most of those strong items- unless you donate for customs. The nerfed items, with the exception of MAYBE chaos+blowpipe, aren't even insanely OP. Those with that cape have likely grinded the shit out of this game and deserve it. It has all been in the game for a while now. Just leave the shit the way it is. For those bitching about chaotics being OP... They are fantastic starter items for new players to work for a little, then obtain. They are something that opens the door to bossing and stronger gear. It isn't necessary to nerf them. Those voting wanting nerfed chaotics are all end-game players who don't like the fact that there are fairly obtainable items that are close to the BIS items. There's already a stupidly large wealth gap along with not-so-great early money makers. Throw the new players a bone and don't f*ck with chaotics.

Why buff NPC def and change attack styles on monsters that have been in the game for an extended period? Everyone & the eco are already adjusted to the current settings. Its part of the lore of YOUR server. Just leave them. Stop trying to be OSRS on everything. I understand it for pking but if people wanted to grind TF out of combat and take long periods of time to kill bosses they'd just play OSRS.

An utterly scuffed update that was mostly supported by already end-game players AKA the bulk of forums users. THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANY SOLUTIONS. SCRAP IT ENTIRELY.

I suggest running in-game polls or something before doing stuff like this. That way there is a greater chance more of the community will see it

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:24 am**

I like the aspect of having to apply certain styles for certain creatures. You shouldn't be able to chaos comp, souls whip the entire pvm line up. For instance, Commander Zilyana should be ranged, zulrah's range phase should be maged or tbow'd, etc. I had the privilege of teaching CoX today in the server to some new players to the content and I've found some glaring things that I believe should be a priority after figuring out how you guys will rebalance monsters. The biggest and most important one seems to be Olm's head rotations and Head Phase. The head should rotate to which ever side has the most people with the very center tile in the room being the "line drawn in the sand". If the room is evenly split such as in a duo, then it should take the secondary priority of looking to the side that is being damaged. One other glaring thing I noticed is Head Phase seems to spawn health pools and crystals at a far higher rate than it should. Today, in a duo, we got 4 healing pools at once and we can't even walk without taking damage from crystals. Without very high end gear and the current mechanics, it will be very hard to complete this piece of content without deaths due to this fact alone. The release of cox has been amazing and much appreciated, time to fine tune it. I have spent near 500 hours in CoX including hardmode CoX throughout my time on old school runescape and it's why I'd love to see these fixes made. It is my favorite piece of content. I appreciate the content and all the hard work put into this! Thank you all!

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:26 am**

Why 'fix' what wasn't broken? I have seen literally no one complain about how easy bosses were. And the small nerf of the BP was already quite controversial in a previous update.

I'm not sure why you are so dead set in making Pkhonor closer to OSRS, even if it ends up as a detrimental issue with the current spaghetti code; considering we have custom whips, items, and bosses. The already small player base loves this game for what it is, and we tend to suck in new players and take them under our wings.

If a new player joins and wants to feel at home with OSRS, they're going to switch to OSRS immediately. I agree with chaotics being nerfed with the introduction of COX, the same one we voted on. But the nerfing of chaos comp (as will be ok stated, requires 1000+ hours and 40b+ or grinding another 100+ hours of clues) when you have already nerfed ranging ammy and the blowpipe in previous updates.

I have been all for some of the changes in pkhonor. A lot of the QOL updates have been amazing, but nerfing what has been in the game for ages is a different animal, when it takes the meta and just decreases it and doesn't add anything better into the game.

On another note, changing the NPC stats and giving them the stats of a literal military tank was fucked from the get go. Slapping an early game boss for 10 minutes in end game gear is just idiotic and y'all know it lmao

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:31 am**

Fe vok wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:26 am Slapping an early game boss for 10 minutes in end game gear is just idiotic.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:18 am**

A couple of things I would like to point out:

1. The goal of this change was not to make bosses as hard as on OSRS, or even harder at all.

Yes, we want to start using the boss stats from OSRS, but that doesn't mean they need to be just as hard as they are on OSRS. Until now all of the old bosses had custom stats assigned to them fairly haphazardly. In addition to their lack of weaknesses rendering many weapons useless, this also created inconsistency and made life hard for us every time we wanted to add a new boss. After all we could often not just use the OSRS stats as that would make them too strong, so we just sort of had to guess our own stats.

We agree with you, this is an RSPS and it should be easier. We don't want to remove that "difficulty modifier". What we want to do is build that modifier into the combat system itself, rather than into the stats of each boss individually. That way we can make it, for example: exactly like OSRS but 30% easier across the board. In our view this offers nothing but benefits. We get all the proper strengths and weaknesses opening up many more viable gear choices, we get more consistency and we can get the difficulty of new bosses exactly right on release without having to expend a lot of effort each time balancing them.

Of course, when all is said and done, some bosses will be stronger or weaker than they were before, compared to other bosses. This is something we intend to balance out by adjusting their drop tables.

2. This was always meant to be a two-step process. It was fully expected that a number of bosses would be entirely unbalanced now.

I can't stress this enough: we knew this would cause havoc. However because there is such huge diversity in boss mechanics and gear setups it seemed almost impossible for us to simulate all of this, and I doubt we could've gotten people to extensively try out all the bosses with all the gear setups on a test server.

Therefore our strategy was the following:

Release pure OSRS stats for all bosses, upsetting many of them
Gather community feedback on both overall difficulty as well as individual bosses and gear
Within days, tweak the combat system to bring the difficulty within normal RSPS levels

Unfortunately the feedback we got is "IT'S SHIT, REVERT IT!!!" which is frankly about as useless as feedback gets.

So, new strategy:

Run simulations ourselves anyway, even though we feel this could be very inaccurate it should still give us more useful data than we are getting now
Release overall balance changes based on the simulations ASAP
Hopefully, now that PvM balance is more reasonable, get some useful feedback from a calmed-down community
Further finetune the system based on that feedback

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the impulse to say: it's worse than it was before => just revert it and ditch the idea. But please try to understand what we are trying to do here. Just because it's bad on day one doesn't mean the whole thing should be abandoned. A rough transition period of a few days is a small price to pay for all the benefits it would give us. I hope you will all help us speed up this process by providing useful input about how much balancing the various bosses and gear setups need, instead of just going on a "this is an RSPS so it needs to be easy" rant. We know that too and we agree, so no need to convince us of that.

Posted: **Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:50 am**

Rapsey wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:18 am Unfortunately the feedback we got is "IT'S SHIT, REVERT IT!!!" which is frankly about as useless as feedback gets.

Good news over to hear.

As to the quote above, what can the community as a whole do to assist with making the process easier? What datapoints would you like us to collect and share?

Could you setup a post similar to the bug hunt posts asking for specific feedback on various bosses?

Maybe ask that the community take screen recordings killing bosses in XYZ gear to simulate newer players vs mid vs max gear.

I’m sure as a community we could help you guys gather data way faster if we knew what you needed and what’s important for you to see on a per boss feedback post or similar.

PkHonor

21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric

Re: 21 January Updates: The Chambers of Xeric