Dear Mike.

[Patel]

I don't think think the suggestion that mike could allow (select) devs to make independent updates is a bad one, from a purely utilitarian perspective.

But it's tantamount to adding a new super to the game, which to my understanding is not something Mike or Rapsey want to do.

Perhaps if there's some dev voting system for updates, that could be good. Maybe 3 devs have to sign off and/or Mike alone. This removes the possibility of a pseudo super but retains the utility of independent dev updates.

[Raj]

So I ironically floated this by Rapsey a few times in the past few months. Both a voting system and an offer from me to just handle code review and deployments. Disclaimer that James posting this thread and me having done that are completely coincidental.

@Patel I will be honest, I don’t understand the argument about not wanting to add new supers. I would understand if the current team of supers was like even somewhat functional. It’s simply not. More or less, it seems Rapsey holds things together 8 out of 12 months of the year, but in my experience, he doesn’t want to release updates because it’s Mike’s domain. So for 8 months of the year, no one can release updates. So I can’t really label it a functional setup, even if everything is fine with regards to maintenance. And if I’m being honest, things are not fine with regards to maintenance rn, considering we have an issue which we already RCA’d like a month ago causing rollbacks, because no supers who know the server source have the time.

The biggest risk with outright letting Niels and I co-sign updates is that we need root permissions on the server the game runs on, probably, which carries risks in terms of cloning the game. The thing is, if we wanted to go rogue and clone the game, we could do that with just our beta server permissions alone. At the end of the day, we’re both career programmers who have sunk thousands of hours into the game and are invested in the community. If my moral compass just disappeared and I wanted a quick buck, I would probably start with the corporate SAP systems I work with rather than trying to clone a dying game surviving off volunteer hours. I imagine Niels doesn’t want to get into the business of hiding from Jagex DMCA’s, paying for advertising, taxes and payment processors, whatever goes into it. I sure as hell don’t. So I understand “we don’t want more supers” but I also really genuinely don’t.

I don’t mean to throw people under the bus, but at the same time, it’s painful to have a front row seat to these things and watch simple fixes take seasons when things could easily be done better, literally for free

[Ayeno1]

So I ironically floated this by Rapsey a few times in the past few months. Both a voting system and an offer from me to just handle code review and deployments. Disclaimer that James posting this thread and me having done that are completely coincidental.

@Patel I will be honest, I don’t understand the argument about not wanting to add new supers. I would understand if the current team of supers was like even somewhat functional. It’s simply not. More or less, it seems Rapsey holds things together 8 out of 12 months of the year, but in my experience, he doesn’t want to release updates because it’s Mike’s domain. So for 8 months of the year, no one can release updates. So I can’t really label it a functional setup, even if everything is fine with regards to maintenance. And if I’m being honest, things are not fine with regards to maintenance rn, considering we have an issue which we already RCA’d like a month ago causing rollbacks, because no supers who know the server source have the time.

The biggest risk with outright letting Niels and I co-sign updates is that we need root permissions on the server the game runs on, probably, which carries risks in terms of cloning the game. The thing is, if we wanted to go rogue and clone the game, we could do that with just our beta server permissions alone. At the end of the day, we’re both career programmers who have sunk thousands of hours into the game and are invested in the community. If my moral compass just disappeared and I wanted a quick buck, I would probably start with the corporate SAP systems I work with rather than trying to clone a dying game surviving off volunteer hours. I imagine Niels doesn’t want to get into the business of hiding from Jagex DMCA’s, paying for advertising, taxes and payment processors, whatever goes into it. I sure as hell don’t. So I understand “we don’t want more supers” but I also really genuinely don’t.

I don’t mean to throw people under the bus, but at the same time, it’s painful to have a front row seat to these things and watch simple fixes take seasons when things could easily be done better, literally for free

Respectful and understandable!! Salute Sir

[Markymark]

You guys do understand this is Mike's long term project, if not his first? You do understand even in his prime, he would never let anyone get ahold of the code, let alone buy it? You do understand he takes pride in his work and the only reason raj and Nazuths have it is because of people like this making posts as such, bringing him down even further than where he already is. And what disrespect I feel, as genuine as you may try to sound. Hes going through a lot with not only his family, but himself. Coming from someone who is essentially in the same boat, one day youll wake up to life and reality around you. Even if it takes 10 more years for Mike to get better, the most thankful and heartwarming thing you could do is be here by his side, like hes been for us when we were all kids. If anything, I actually thought this would be a message to Mike on feeling better, or a happy new year. Pity he has to login to stuff like this on the holidays...

[James]

You guys do understand this is Mike's long term project, if not his first? You do understand even in his prime, he would never let anyone get ahold of the code, let alone buy it? You do understand he takes pride in his work and the only reason raj and Nazuths have it is because of people like this making posts as such, bringing him down even further than where he already is. And what disrespect I feel, as genuine as you may try to sound. Hes going through a lot with not only his family, but himself. Coming from someone who is essentially in the same boat, one day youll wake up to life and reality around you. Even if it takes 10 more years for Mike to get better, the most thankful and heartwarming thing you could do is be here by his side, like hes been for us when we were all kids. If anything, I actually thought this would be a message to Mike on feeling better, or a happy new year. Pity he has to login to stuff like this on the holidays...

[Will be ok2]

You guys do understand this is Mike's long term project, if not his first? You do understand even in his prime, he would never let anyone get ahold of the code, let alone buy it? You do understand he takes pride in his work and the only reason raj and Nazuths have it is because of people like this making posts as such, bringing him down even further than where he already is. And what disrespect I feel, as genuine as you may try to sound. Hes going through a lot with not only his family, but himself. Coming from someone who is essentially in the same boat, one day youll wake up to life and reality around you. Even if it takes 10 more years for Mike to get better, the most thankful and heartwarming thing you could do is be here by his side, like hes been for us when we were all kids. If anything, I actually thought this would be a message to Mike on feeling better, or a happy new year. Pity he has to login to stuff like this on the holidays...

You understand Mike is not the original owner, right? He took over Pkhonor from another person. Mike has let several people have access to coding the server over the past 6 years. He is unable to fully code the game himself, not because of skill, but lack of time / motivation to do so.

you also say the ONLY reason why Raj and Naz have the code is because "people making posts as such" so please show proof of this? You're making an incredible amount of accusations with literally no proof to back up anything you're saying.. You did the exact same shit posting on the multi PVP post aswell.

Also, Mike is a grown man, as an adult you'll understand that you don't always need emotional support, sometimes you need people around you to tell the truth, and the truth is that without change the server will dwindle, player retention will go down, dev's will go into hiatus / quit. He can make a move to fix the problem and improve HIS server by allowing dev's to update in real time.

I am fully aware Mike has always wanted to do his own due diligence on updates by reviewing all the code prior to updates, the problem is you can't want to do due diligence but also refuse to do it in the same breath.

And with how buggy and unpatched content we just let sit in there, only makes me question if bugs like these are purposely defended and designed in favor of the coders. Im sure thats why Mike only wanted to be the main coder and not allow others to code. But unfortunately with life happening, he trusted a few people to fillin for what he cant, just to be stepped on but not crushed. Instead of certain devs aiming to fix their content that players make known, they sweep stuff under the rug causimg Mikes job to become more difficult until he just eventually stops one day. But thats a whole different discussion.

This post you make absurd accusations again. Speaking on things you know absolutely nothing about. Maybe all these bugs could be fixed, and patches be made if only the devs who dedicate their personal time for FREE actually see fruits of their labor, that not even being financially covered yet just being able to see their hard work and time spent used once completed.

[Markymark]

The proof is what should be an escape from reality and pain and anger, something he enjoyed doing for a long time he eventually just stopped, and I dont think it was on its own. Perhaps you should put yourself in his shoes, even if he wasnt the origional base owner, hes the one whom made it into what it is today. Yes, hes had help, from people he still talks to to this day, and only trust those that he feels has that compasion, but nobody, not even donderstone2 has anything more than part of the code. I cant speak for Mike, and neither could you. Point is this topic is pretty ignorant, as your reply as well. The current Devs dont even bother fixing or patching the current bugs in their own code from years back, you think Mike wants to see his game ruined? Because surely one day it will happen, especially at this rate, unless god forbid he decides to erase the code and shut the game down one day as a goodbye from his computer life, and his jounrey to his new life as part of his relief and letting go.

[Will be ok2]

The proof is what should be an escape from reality and pain and anger, something he enjoyed doing for a long time he eventually just stopped, and I dont think it was on its own. Perhaps you should put yourself in his shoes, even if he wasnt the origional base owner, hes the one whom made it into what it is today. Yes, hes had help, from people he still talks to to this day, and only trust those that he feels has that compasion, but nobody, not even donderstone2 has anything more than part of the code. I cant speak for Mike, and neither could you. Point is this topic is pretty ignorant, as your reply as well. The current Devs dont even bother fixing or patching the current bugs in their own code from years back, you think Mike wants to see his game ruined? Because surely one day it will happen, especially at this rate, unless god forbid he decides to erase the code and shut the game down one day as a goodbye from his computer life, and his jounrey to his new life as part of his relief and letting go.

I see you've resorted to full shit posts now, telling us the exact emotions and thoughts of Mike followed by the next sentence saying "I can't speak for mike"
I appreciate your opinion on this matter, thanks for commenting.

[The underdog]

Ok we buy pkhonor and fire Markymark

[Markymark]

Ok we buy pkhonor and fire Markymark

But then I cant free you