PkHonor

@Elon musky both things can be simultaneously true. Patel’s classification of Church as meaning well is pretty accurate from what I can tell. Your classification is also probably not wrong from your own perspective, at least in terms of your complaints. I would question your extension of those issues to his character as a whole though. Just one of those funny things about perspective. The most likely situation is the truth is somewhere between the two of you.

I consider Church a friend, but I will also be honest about the fact that I know he means well, but my perception is his meaning well has driven him to handle some ambiguous situations through escalation, I assume because he falsely believes it’s not possible to be wrong while having purely good intentions. I can be just as wrong as anyone though, and this is obviously just me speculating about root cause.

On the voting thing, as I’ve lost faith in people’s ability to take measured and unbiased positions over the years, I’ve also lost faith in the concept of voting achieving ideal results greater than 50% of the time. Especially when it comes to removing someone from a group, where bias leaks into decisions heavily.

Don’t know which way I’d have voted if I’d been asked. Last time I was asked, I voted no, but I was exceptionally on the fence. I generally believe everyone is capable of self-improvement given proper communication but that does require accepting that you’ve made a mistake.

Raj wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:30 am Don’t know which way I’d have voted if I’d been asked. Last time I was asked, I voted no, but I was exceptionally on the fence.

The plot thickens... So how many members of the staff team were actually involved in this final vote?

Appreciate your honest, level headed takes as always.

Iron adam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:38 am The plot thickens... So how many members of the staff team were actually involved in this final vote?

Keep in mind I am technically just a lowly moderator, and also a bit of an edge case on the staff team. If everyone was asked except normal mods and trial mods, or even everyone except me, I wouldn’t see that as unreasonable. Or if the decision makers on this one had assumed I was still equally on the fence as last time I was asked, that would also be very reasonable, because it would have been true.

Iron adam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:38 am The plot thickens... So how many members of the staff team were actually involved in this final vote?

Appreciate your honest, level headed takes as always.

i Can confirm and with proof, that 8 of 9 staff members (not including Ryan) had their say, Raj being the one who wasn't asked.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:40 am
- Uninformed: He would confidently speak on subjects that he has little to no knowledge on. An example was this suggestion ( viewtopic.php?p=764014&hilit=Map#p764014). He ensured me that it would take way too long and was confidently explaining to me why it was so difficult to do. All for Lieven (Rest his soul) to complete and implement it EXTREMELY quickly.

I can see why you hold the other two against him, but in this one even Rapsey says it's unlikely to happen, and I don't see a comment from church at all. His job is to have game knowledge and administrative knowledge, not to be a programmer. Plus, if Lieven hadn't looked into the map when it had issues, he might've never had the idea to use whatever functions enabled the map mods. If brant hadnt done a bunch of legwork making the rectangles (or finding them), it would've again taken a lot more time. This was not at all the obvious outcome of the situation and I don't think this is a good example of church using poor judgment.

Jayden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:21 am i Can confirm and with proof, that 8 of 9 staff members (not including Ryan) had their say, Raj being the one who wasn't asked.

What did they say? Or was it just a vote? I don't think people want names as much as they simply want to understand something which doesn't make any obvious sense to them, me included

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:02 am

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:40 am
- Uninformed: He would confidently speak on subjects that he has little to no knowledge on. An example was this suggestion ( viewtopic.php?p=764014&hilit=Map#p764014). He ensured me that it would take way too long and was confidently explaining to me why it was so difficult to do. All for Lieven (Rest his soul) to complete and implement it EXTREMELY quickly.

I can see why you hold the other two against him, but in this one even Rapsey says it's unlikely to happen, and I don't see a comment from church at all. His job is to have game knowledge and administrative knowledge, not to be a programmer. Plus, if Lieven hadn't looked into the map when it had issues, he might've never had the idea to use whatever functions enabled the map mods. If brant hadnt done a bunch of legwork making the rectangles (or finding them), it would've again taken a lot more time. This was not at all the obvious outcome of the situation and I don't think this is a good example of church using poor judgment.

Jayden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:21 am i Can confirm and with proof, that 8 of 9 staff members (not including Ryan) had their say, Raj being the one who wasn't asked.

What did they say? Or was it just a vote? I don't think people want names as much as they simply want to understand something which doesn't make any obvious sense to them, me included

Was this a singular abuse or repeated abuse by Church? And over what time period? I have a feeling this is fake just to see how the community will react.

Jayden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:21 am

Iron adam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:38 am The plot thickens... So how many members of the staff team were actually involved in this final vote?

Appreciate your honest, level headed takes as always.

i Can confirm and with proof, that 8 of 9 staff members (not including Ryan) had their say, Raj being the one who wasn't asked.

Which 9 Staff members where asked? I count 7, possibly 8, if Luky911 was asked.

- Jayden
- Kash
- Hc Kassa
- Mod 026
- Slayer
- Hunkofman
- Khilla

And what was the result of the vote? Was it a unanimous vote or merely a majority vote?

Nazuths wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:06 am

Jayden wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 5:21 am

Iron adam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 4:38 am The plot thickens... So how many members of the staff team were actually involved in this final vote?

Appreciate your honest, level headed takes as always.

i Can confirm and with proof, that 8 of 9 staff members (not including Ryan) had their say, Raj being the one who wasn't asked.

Which 9 Staff members where asked? I count 7, possibly 8, if Luky911 was asked.

- Jayden
- Kash
- Hc Kassa
- Mod 026
- Slayer
- Hunkofman
- Khilla

And what was the result of the vote? Was it a unanimous vote or merely a majority vote?

we have 11 staff members (which includes luky), don't count Ryan or church, that takes us down to 9. raj wasn't asked, that's 8 out of 9 "valid" opinions asked for (as i mentioned above.

It was 6-2 in favor of him being removed from the team.
if you want to include Ryan's opinion and what Raj has said on this post, that'd make it 7 agree, 2 disagree and 1 on the fence.

Patel wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:02 am What did they say? Or was it just a vote? I don't think people want names as much as they simply want to understand something which doesn't make any obvious sense to them, me included

That'd be up to you to specifically ask the other team members, i personally only have their final yes or no answers.

Elon musky wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:40 am - Uninformed: He would confidently speak on subjects that he has little to no knowledge on.

You out of all people saying this

I will not speculate on anything I'm not privy to, in particular when I've not been particularly active.

My interactions with Church were always positive and I wish him all the best in the future.

If Church did something that went beyond his responsibilities, I trust Ryan to implement guidance so that it doesn't happen again.